A few days ago Cardinal Dolan met with about forty other faith leaders at the Staten Island Albanian Islamic Cultural Center. Did he preach the Faith? Did he seek their conversion to Christianity? Did he, in other words, behave like - a bishop?
In a word, NO.
He uttered heresy when he said to the Muslim leaders, "you love god, we love god and he is the same god'." There is a reason why I did not capitalize those "g"s. Simply put, what the Muslims worship is a false idol; it is not the One, True, Triune God. Even the true Muslims, for all their many faults, understand that "allah" is not equivalent to the One True God (although their perspective is different). He then lauded them for "not losing their faith". Faith in a false idol? Your Eminence, you are more at fault than they for you spouted the heresy of indifferentism at them as opposed to the truth of the Gospel.
He is not the first Prince of the Church to try to curry favor with Muslims by behaving as though heresy was equivalent to the One True Faith. Our own Cardinal McCarrick set less-than-sterling examples of that many times in the past - chronicled by Yours Truly.
Pray for our shepherds. And by all means, speak out!
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Do some research on the Aramaic/Syriac origins of the word "Allah". Presently many if not most "Arabic" Christians of the Middle East refer to God as "Allah" which is a derivitive of the Aramaic/Syriac "Elaw".
ReplyDeleteThey are NOT the same. Islam does not recognize Jesus Christ as being the Second Person of the Trinity. They may claim to honor Him as a prophet, but they hold Him inferior to "allah". That a Prince of the Church failed to acknowledge that is utterly inexcusable.
DeleteWell I think you need to criticize Pope Francis, Pope Benedict XVI, Blessed Pope John Paul II, and Pope Paul VI--all of whom said in varous addresses and documents that the three Abrahamic faiths--Judaism, Christianity, and Islam worship the same God (capital G). Moreover if acceptance of the Trinity is a requirement for worshipping the same God, than we do not worship the same "god" as the Jews. You should confine your comments to subjects about which you know something. But then that might leave this blog blank
ReplyDeleteI don't know about your god, but the One True God does not condone jihad, the child-marriages to 9-yr old girls (and rape of the same), beheadings of "infidels". And speaking of "beheadings", if Pope Francis really thinks that Islam is on a par with Christianity, then why did he canonize those 800 Italians who were martyred precisely because they refused to renounce their faith for Islam? Islam is a heresy - and a particularly vile one at that.
DeleteYou didn't address the point. Popes Francis, Benedict XVI, John Paul II, Paul VI, and John XXIII have all said that the three Abrahamic faiths, Judaism, Christianity and Islam all worship the same God. Neither they nor I am saying that the three faiths are equally true in doctrine, but the Catholic Church does hold that Muslims, Christians, and Jews all worship the same God--the God of Abraham. Do you agree with the Church teaching or not?
ReplyDeleteThe real question is "do the Muslims agree with the Church teaching"? If you look at their "shahada" and the way they conduct themselves when a Muslim dares to convert to Christianity, it's obvious they don't.
DeleteThe CCC 841 teaches the 3 religions PROFESS the same God,but they certainly do not POSSESS the same God. Profess and possess are 2 ENTIRELY different things. And NO Pope spoke ex cathredra when speaking about that....
DeleteThe Second Vatican Council—and an Ecumenical Council in Union with the Pope as Vatican II was—is the highest magisterium of the Church and declared:
ReplyDeleteThe Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.
So maybe you don’t worship the same god as the Muslims, but the Holy Father, the College of Bishops, and the rest of us do. You are just another example of people who claim to speak for the Church but are ignorant of Church teaching.
You were quoting from Nostra Aetate. Look at Lumen Gentium, sections 16 & 17. I'm not going to quote and expound the whole thing here (it's done in part in those sections of the Catechism that you omitted from your 1:12 comment).
DeleteYou show a penchant for taking quotes out of context - just as you showed a penchant for putting words into my mouth two months ago with your comments to my April 21st post regarding Blessed Sacrament Church. Yes, you are the same person (we bloggers can see ip addresses of our visitors). You either have a "chip on your shoulder" towards me or are "a french fry short of a Happy Meal". Either way, I hope you've enjoyed your "15 minutes of fame" here. It won't be repeated.
I am waiting for you to own up to your faulty teaching of what our faith holds. In the meantime, check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church, 841
ReplyDelete841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
You know, Consolamini, I've been studying Islam and I think, as you say, it has many admirable qualities. And Catholicism, as you point to this fellow DC, has a lot of intolerant people. Furthermore, Islam seems to have quite a bit in common with Christianity. There are quite a few Europeans who are converting to Islam, as I'm sure you've heard. Catholicism is tanking in Europe and Islam is winning many new converts. I don't see a problem with any of these people in formerly Catholic areas converting to Islam, do you? In fact, if my experience with Islam leads me closer to God, the one God we all worship, than Catholicism does, it's okay for me to convert, too, isn't it?
DeleteSeriously, are you a Muslim?
Consolamini, I read that section. I also read the following sections too, all the way up to Section 856. You didn't mention those; is that because they give Section 841 a little too much context? To my other readers, please do so (link is to the right).
DeleteThomas Aquinas recognized that the Muslims, such as the Islamic philosophers Averoes & Avecenna, understood God as creator, as supreme being. He wrote the Summa contra gentiles to all of those who understood that, even if they had many erroneous ideas of God, and lacked many true ideas, such as the Fatherhood of God, and Tri-unity of God. Can we be more Catholic than Aquinas, than Popes John Paul, Benedict and Francis? I think not. We need to respect that truth which people possess, little as it may be, and build on that, not trash it and makes enemies of them in our self-righteousness..
ReplyDeleteThis matter is also being discussed on another blog, Rorate Caeli at http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/06/cardinal-dolan-to-muslims-dont-lose.html?m=1
DeleteCharles at 3:26 yesterday said "I disagree with you about Islam having a rich philosophical history if you are implying that has continued to today. They used to have a rich philosophy but then it was suppressed and did not continue much past Averroes' immediate followers. This is one of the reasons why theological discussions are so difficult with Muslims; they lack common language of categories and Western metaphysics. This was one of the important points in Pope Benedict's Regensburg Address."
Pope Benedict's address can be found at http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/papal-address-at-university-of-regensburg
There's no doubt that the Muslims do believe their deity is "creator" and "supreme being". It doesn't necessarily follow that their "deity" and ours are one and the same. For an idea of Aquinas' view of the Muslim faith, see http://www.opusdeialert.com/st-thomas-aquinas-against-mohammed.htm
My main concern in this post is not so much the beliefs/conduct of the Muslims, but those of Cardinal Dolan. One does not "build on truth" by confirming what's erroneous.