In 99% of his videos, Michael Voris is spot on with the Vortex "where lies and falsehoods are trapped and exposed". However, he seems to be giving some misstatements a pass if they issue forth from Pope Francis. Not only that, but he continues to chide those of us who call out inanities and distortions, regardless of source. Logical fallacies abound in this and I'll try to unpack as best as I can.
First, he seems to think that the only ones noticing the miscues of Pope Francis are "extreme left" and "extreme right". That's simply not true; every now and then Voris intimates that he himself has noticed them (See 2:58-3:03, 3:10-3:13, 4:30). In artificially dividing them into two camps of either progressive liberals or sedevacantists without acknowledging any honorable motives on the part of us who also see the problems, he demonizes us.
He correctly states the reactions of "the right" and "the left". The "right" (and he seems to be lumping faithful Catholics and sedevacantists together) are displeased with various misstatements on the part of the Holy Father. He rightly says that these same misstatements cause jubilation on the part of the "left". Then he says "both camps are wrong". Does it not dawn on Voris that they are reacting to the very same misstatements? Both camps are having their typical reactions precisely because they have the same understanding of the Holy Father's pronouncements. And just why, oh why, do these folks of widely differing perspectives read Pope Francis in the same manner? Is it logical to assume that all these vastly differing people have identical perspectives on the Holy Father? Or does the cause for such "interpretation" lie in the message itself?
So poor Pope Francis is just so misunderstood (see 5:50)? Funny! As I said in a previous post, I don't recall the previous two pontiffs having such a difficult time making their messages plainly understood. In fact, the left hated these two men precisely because there was no hint of ambiguity (or nuance as Cdl Dolan calls it) to their words. They also knew better than to give interviews. Now why does this Pope continue to give interviews, after all the debacles that have resulted in this first year alone? That's a fair question and I offer it for consideration.
At 3:48-4:15, Voris launches into those on "the right", stating that all in this group attack the Holy Father as a person. That's simply not true. In artificially lumping people into two categories, Voris seems to be accusing those of us voicing concern over the Holy Father's imprudent utterances and who pray for the pope and plead with him to do what it takes to ensure that no obstacles to the Faith arises from his pronouncements. The Holy Father has had a year now to get the proper Vatican staff in place and yet the gaffes continue to emanate from the Vatican. It is not an "attack on the Pope" to state plainly that this buck stops at his desk. I don't know about these emails to which Voris alludes; I trust what he says is the case - but that is no cause to demonize us all. And yes, he does so precisely because he doesn't acknowledge that those of us who take issue with the Holy Father's pronouncements may have the good of the Church at heart.
Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia. That is the truth - and therein lies a key problem. If billions of people are hearing garbled messages from the Pope, they will understandably believe that the teachings of Jesus Christ are likewise incomprehensible. We know that there are different levels of papal pronouncements and that interviews don't rise to the level of pronouncements at all. Still that is the image that an uncatechized world sees. I join with thousands of other faithful Catholics in loudly urging the Holy Father to tidy up his presentation and pointing out to him the havoc he wrecks by his careless utterances. If Michael Voris cares not to join us in this effort, I've no problem with that. I do take issue with Vortexes such as this that undermine our message.
O Little Town Of Bethlehem
49 minutes ago
Cardinal Burke recently wrote in L’Osservatore Romano a piece friendly to Pope Francis. I think, Burke, is, as Fr. Z. put it, engaged in talking people off the ledge. Voris loves and trusts this holy priest Cardinal Burke. I suspect that he is taking his stance from Cardinal Burke and following his consolations. http://www.news.va/en/news/american-cardinal-on-the-message-of-this-pontifica
ReplyDeleteThank you. I saw that article and I addressed it here http://restore-dc-catholicism.blogspot.com/2014/02/cardinal-burke-tries-to-explain-some.html.
DeleteIn the Cardinal's article I did not detect one hint of the condescension that Voris heaps upon those of us who simply refuse to turn a blind eye to the many verbal missteps of the current Holy Father. In this respect, Michael is taking no cues from His Eminence.
is there any way you could be seeing the Pope as the Pharisees saw Jesus? as one not observing the Law as They understood it. According to their understanding of the Law Jesus should have allowed them to stone the woman caught in adultery to death. that what the Law said after all. But that was reading the letter of the Law and not the Spirit of it as Jesus taught. In fact they thought because of His many failures of keeping all of the Law they were justified in condemning Him to death. As did St. Paul before his conversion. the Apostles just never could follow the Law either. Be very careful in what you think you know. Jesus came to tell those who think they see that they are blind!
ReplyDeleteMy friend, surely you jest, no? We don't need to "speculate" on anything in Catholicism because it is the truth. the truth, as you and I know, does not change. How can it, if it's the truth? Before you imply that those Catholics who are able to see clearly the divergence between the last 2,000 years and the last 60-70 years are being Pharisaical I would respectfully suggest you delve deeper into the history of the Church.
DeleteThe Holy Father is speaking and acting in ways that are not merely "different" from previous Pontificates, but is speaking in contradiction of them. The trap that so many Catholics fall in today is that they confuse Infallibility with impeccability. The Pope is only infallible on matters of faith and/or morals when he uses his supreme authority to speak "ex cathedra". That is the only time he is infallible. And, additionally, he is certainly not impeccable, and can make disastrous errors of judgment on a thousand other matters concerning the Church, be they disciplinary or whatever. The truly amazing thing about the Church during the last twenty centuries is that it has survived some pretty awful Popes.
You ask, "Is there any way you could be seeing the Pope as the Pharisees saw Jesus?" Well, no.
Papa Alex, your interpretation of the various Scriptures is flawed imho, but I won't delve into that now for that is not the main issue. You asked a hypothetical question, yet the following comments had absolutely nothing do do with your question. So indeed, is there basis to your question? Do you not see how many of us who seek for clear guidance from the Holy Father, are instead getting "nuance" (as Cdl Dolan puts it)? You urged me to "be very careful in what you think you know". Again, what motivates that statement? Are you just throwing these innuendos out there, hoping that I'll take the bait on one of them? If you cannot state your case clearly, I must conclude you have none.
DeletePapa" Alex: Jesus NEVER failed to condemn sin. He said to the scribes and Pharisees, “Let him who is W/OUT SIN go first.” He said to the woman: "Go and SIN NO MORE." [He sought out the man at Bethsaida to tell him: “Sin no more, lest some worse thing happen to thee.” John 5:14)
ReplyDeleteJesus never said: “You can't follow the law” (“Nothing is impossible W/GOD” Luke 1:37 – Hail Mary full of GRACE!)! “Who then can be saved? Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:25-26. In regard to the Law, He said: “Do not think that I am come to destroy the law... For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled. He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5:18-19
Possibly these scribes and Pharisees were "legally" divorced so in God’s eyes adulterous themselves. This is how the DISCIPLES responded to Jesus' equation of divorce w/ adultery: The disciples said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry(!)” (Matt 19:10)
You say the scribes, priests, and Pharisees condemned Jesus because of their conception of the law. But then why didn’t they stone Herod and Herodias? They considered Herod and Herodias 'faithful' Jews in GOOD STANDING (powerful Temple donors)! Nor did they defend John the Baptist and vehemently accused Jesus to Herod! (Luke 23:10) The High Priest SAID he was killing Jesus expediently. (John 11:50)
Jesus condemned the scribes and Pharisees for their corruption and distortion of God’s law—Count the number of times “woe” and “blind guides” occur in Matthew 23, wrapping up: You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar. Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? Behold, YOUR house shall be left to you, desolate. [Empty of God]
In regard to your blind quote again it has to do w/SIN: And he said: I believe, Lord. And falling down, he adored him. And Jesus said: For judgment I am come into this world; that they who see not, may see; and they who see, may become blind. And some of the Pharisees, who were with him, heard: and they said unto him: Are we also blind? Jesus said to them: If you were blind, you should not have sin: but now you say: We see. Your sin remaineth. John 9:38-41
“If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” 1 John 1:10
There’s a psalm priests used to pray in the Mass PF suppresses: "Set a watch before my mouth, oh Lord, and a door round about my lips. May my heart not incline to evil words--to make excuses for SINS."
anonymous. herod was not a Jew.I am not speaking of Jesus treatment of the women but how the Pharisees hated Jesus cause he didn't follow the Law as they understood. the pharisees hated Jesus because he didn't keep the Law according to their literal interpretations. The law of Love is the only law. Your arrogance about your knowledge of Christianity is Pharisical at best. Jesus died for the people you hate, the sinners. He condemned only those who were holier than thou jews who wouldn't touch the man dying on the side of the road or eat with Smaritans because they didn't keep the Law or the Law forbid touching anything unclean. Charity is over the Law. the Holy Father is like Jesus in the scriptures, you are like the ones he condemned who found fault with everyone. It seems no one but yourselves can keep the commandments. Most of us need the grace of God to live it not legalism to please God.
ReplyDelete"The people you hate"? How do you presume to tell anonymous whom he/she hates?
DeleteYou are as psycho as Carol of Tenth Crusade.
ReplyDeleteIf you're saying my mindset is similar to that of Carol, I take that as a high compliment! Thank you!
DeleteIf we fail to charitably correct error, misstatements, or misleading comments made by the Holy Father, then we do not love him enough to offer respectful fraternal correction. We also do not love the Church enough to protect Her from statements and actions that can harm the Church regardless of the intentions of the statements and actions.
ReplyDeleteRemember that Paul criticized the actions of Pope Peter because Pope Peter's actions did not properly reflect what the Church stands for. Similarly, we can imitate Paul in critcizing the Holy Father for his actions (these include loose or misleading statements) when they do not properly reflect what the Church stands for. Such criticism can help Pope Francis exercise more prudence in the future when making any kind of public statements. On the other hand, putting our heads in the sand a la Voris is not helping the Pope, and not helping the Church.
Dear Restore DC,
ReplyDeleteThank you for this article. It hits the spot. The Holy Father himself has been lumping faithful Catholics with the sedevantists and schismatics and calling them all sorts of vile names and seems not to care how that hurts. Not very charitable for a Pope. This article is so comforting.
“Papa” Alex – you make no sense: “The law of Love is the only law… Charity is over the Law.” According to Jesus: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and thy whole soul and thy whole mind. This is the greatest of the commandments, and the first. And the second, its like, is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments, all the law and the prophets depend. Matt 22:37-40
ReplyDeleteYou say: “the Pharisees hated Jesus cause he didn't follow the Law as they understood. the pharisees hated Jesus because he didn't keep the Law according to their literal interpretations... He condemned only those who were holier than thou…” But Jesus invited those holier than thou to stone the woman – his exact words, “Let him who is w/out sin cast the first stone.” But they slunk off. Did they slink off because they thought they were sinful? Or did they slink off because they never had any intention of stoning the woman any more than they said a word about Herod, but wanted to trap Jesus into condoning NOT stoning her. It was Jesus and John the Baptist who were speaking AGAINST the lax interpretations and practices of the Priests, Pharisees and Scribes.
You say the Pharisees hated Jesus because he didn’t go w/their literal interpretation of the law but the Pharisees do NOT love the law or seek its literal interpretation: they do all their works to be seen by men; they love the best places at feasts, the best seats at the synagogue, greetings in the marketplace and to be called by men, Rabbi. (Matt 23:5,6,7)
They are not going to heaven and they ensure no-one else is going to get there (Matt 23:13)
They relax and distort the law: allowing people to not support their parents by declaring money a gift to God when the Law commands them to honor mother and father (Matt 15:4-5) and allowing people to get out of oaths (sworn obligations) by changing the parameters (Matt 23:16-22)
You say justice and mercy oppose each other, but Jesus said: you tithe mint, and anise, and cummin, and have left the weightier things of the law; justice, and mercy, and faith. These things you ought to have done, and not to leave those undone. (Matt 23:23)
Here’s Jesus’ problem w/Pharisees in a nutshell: Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence!...inside full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. Matt 23:25, 28
You say: “Jesus died for the people you hate, the sinners” – I am a sinner and Jesus died to redeem me, but He never said salvation was easy-- disciple comes from “discipline”. Jesus began to make it known to his disciples that he must go up to Jerusalem, and there, with much ill usage from the chief priests and elders and scribes, must be put to death, and rise again on the third day. Whereupon Peter, drawing him to his side, began remonstrating with him; Never, Lord, he said; no such thing shall befall thee. At which He turned round and said to Peter, Back, Satan; thou art a stone in my path; for these thoughts of thine are man’s, not God’s. Jesus also said to his disciples, If any man has a mind to come my way, let him renounce self, and take up his cross, and follow me. The man who tries to save his life shall lose it; it is the man who loses his life for my sake that will secure it. How is a man the better for it, if he gains the whole world at the cost of losing his own soul? For a man’s soul, what price can be high enough? The Son of Man will come hereafter in his Father’s glory with his angels about him, and he will recompense everyone, then, according to his works. Believe me, there are those standing here who will not taste of death before they have seen the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. (Matt 16:21-28)
Papa Alex, You say the holy father is like Jesus, but he and his bishops are far more like scribes and Pharisees who have twisted the law so that anything difficult can be gotten out of and one can still be "faithful" or "sinless". Some of the current twists off the top of my head:
ReplyDeleteYou don't want to take care of your parents (or your relatives) call it KORBAN - see Bishop Lynch/Teri Schiavo.
Life is sacred from the womb to the tomb, but outlawing the death penalty for criminals means you have checked your prolife box and you don't have to LIFT A FINGER to save the lives of the 1.2 million INNOCENT BABIES murdered each year in their mother's womb -- vide letter from Archbishop O'Brien to Gov O'Malley - no mention of 35,000 babies murdered annually in Maryland, but request to end the death penalty – five (5) executed since 1961!
“Archbishop O’Brien said it is “especially hard to fathom” O’Malley supporting same-sex “marriage” legislation, given that “our requests last year for you to sponsor legislation to repeal the death penalty and support students in Catholic and other non-public schools were unheeded.” ...According to The Washington Post, Gov. O’Malley often attends daily Mass, and his four children attend Catholic schools.”
Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/archbishop-obrien-asks-catholic-gov.-omalley-not-to-support-same-sex-marria/#ixzz2wBR7rv39
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Maryland
Life is “sacred” from the womb to the tomb, but if you only have three months to live, if you only have 7 days to live, or if you have a "chronic" bladder infection, you can deprive yourself of pacemaker, all medication and food and water or your relatives can do it for you--and you can do it in a Catholic nursing home for no reason at all except you want to--and Catholic Hospice will assist you and the Catholic priest will absolve (and encourage) you! http://www.holyredeemer.com/Main/HospiceServices1.aspx
You can’t give morphine to assist someone to die, but if you are giving it to “relieve their pain” – it’s okay! Cardinal [Just say it’s for PAIN!] Pell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvzJPYzlIj0
Artificial contraception, abortion and sterilization are all against Church Law and the bishops will fight to the last U.S. court to protect their consciences from the Contraceptive Mandate (passed by Catholic Politicians). But Voris and many others have chronicled Catholic hospitals passing out contraception, also sterilization and abortion. Dolan has been paying for health care plans that cover abortion and contraception for years due to "union contracts". Many universities have also been covering in their health care plans. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/nyregion/new-york-archdiocese-reluctantly-paying-for-birth-control.html?_r=0
Part II: Artificial contraception, abortion and sterilization are all against Church Law but so many church members are engaging in these practices that blind guide bishops after turning blind eye for 40 years now using practice to justify CHANGING God’s law!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/03/us-vatican-family-germany-idUSBREA121EH20140203
Homosexual acts are mortal sins, but Catholic Colleges have LGBTQ majors and clubs!
http://las.depaul.edu/lgbtq/
http://www.loyola.edu/club/spectrum.aspx
Homosexual acts are mortal sins that will send you to hell, but no need to object to same sex “civil unions” even if that means that children will be taught to role play homosexual acts in school and all be exposed to constant homosexual culture!
http://www.massresistance.org/media/video/brainwashing.html
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/washington-cardinal-mccarrick-says-he-supports-same-sex-civil-unions-on-cnn
http://time.com/21516/pastor-claims-frozen-will-turn-your-children-gay/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2804424/posts
Voris just did a special on the Religious Ed Conference, where those who teach our children the faith are being 'educated’ by the Catholic Church to be pro-abortion, pro deviant sex and to teach our children FILTH! [see other post on this site]
In the face of changing technology and Protestant mores, the Catholic hierarchy could have continued to teach the Biblical truth, “women will be saved through childbearing, assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty” (1 Tim 2:15), but led by John 23 and other "modernists" like Ratzinger, the hierarchy decided to "open to the world". Not only was primary purpose of marriage changed to "unitive" from "procreative" (setting up de facto approval of divorce (annulments from 100s to tens of thousands), birth control, abortion and homosexual marriages), women no longer had to dress modestly (fornication) or remain silent and outside the sanctuary in Church. All were taught that Protestants believe the same as we do (basically), no need to be afraid of worshiping with them or that they are going to hell if they don’t recant. We assumed that meant we could get married on a beach and divorced and remarried too! Hey, if protestants can go to communion w/out going to confession (and not go to hell!), we don't believe in confession either! If Protestants can go to church whenever they feel like it, so can wee! Basically, according to the past three holy fathers it really didn’t matter whether you believed on Jesus Christ or not--you were saved! It’s reasonable to hope that hell is empty! Death and judgment are a creation of the Pharisees! And what you have here is the same distorting and twisting of the law/oaths to keep people happy so that the only ones who are crucified/stoned are those who protest.
$17 trillion (the biggest lie: lay hirelings (and priests and religious) who work for (large $million) salary are the same as those who gave their lives to Christ) and 60 million dead babies later (and that's just U.S. (us)), you might see Jesus (?!), but I see a generation that is going to go down in history as the most wicked, evil, stupid generation ever!
wow anonymous. r u ok? So no Pope is good enough for your church. you must be a protestant since you are your own pope. I'll pray for you to see clearly as St. Paul was ab;e to on the road to Damascus.
ReplyDeleteRestore. believe me your hate for others and these commenters hate can be seen from outer space. No one would believe in the Jesus you have concieved. you are all eating each other up in your bid to scrutinized everyone according to your legalistic thinking of Church teaching and the scriptures. the audacity you all have about your own knowledge and understanding can only be found in scripture by those who kept trying to trip up Jesus for NOT following the Law of Moses exactly. He must have really been blind not to follow the letter of the Law instead of the Law of Love and understanding.
ReplyDeleteYou complain about OUR audacity? Papa Alex, with this post you have crossed an unacceptable line in accusing us of hate and holding yourself as our judge. I hope you've enjoyed being published here, for that has come to an end. Perhaps an apology might move me to publish future comments, but for now - good bye.
DeleteOne distortion just slipped my mind: Murdering babies is a horrible crime and terrible injustice against humanity, automatically excommunicates you from the Church - oh Pope Francis (and ST JPII etc) are soooo PROLIFE and such sons of the church, Church teaching is so clear they don't need to mention it let alone obsess about it - BUT if you are PERSONALLY opposed to abortion, you can VOTE FOR OTHERS to have free choice to murder babies! Now how about if you were personally opposed to murdering POPES or BISHOPS, but voted FOR a law that made it legal for others to murder bishops and popes - I wonder if these politicians would get free passes to papal masses?
ReplyDeletePapa Alex- funny how when you can't address substance, you call names. But there have been 266 popes - if I say three have distorted Church law, it leaves 263. Ratzinger himself said VCII was a counter syllabus to the teachings of previous popes. If you want to follow these popes, you may - but to imagine 60 million dead babies, $17 trillion debt inheritance to our children, 50% divorce, 50% illegitimacy, 27% Catholics having abortion, assisted suicide, organ harvesting from live people and organ trafficking, euthanasia, a society drowning in porn, schools teaching sado-masochism, slut walks, men marching around naked in the street or dressed like women in PRIDE parades, same-sex marriage, pedophile and homosexual priest scandal that has cost billions of dollars that were to be spent on the poor is the fruit of those who worship Jesus Christ, or "love" as you say, and not the work of Satan and those who love sin just shows how blind, deaf and dumb Catholics have become from the teachings they have absorbed at "church"! Be careful as you throw around "hater", that you don't crucify Christ like the Pharisees, scribes and priests did. Jesus Christ will be your judge and he sees into your heart. I pray it's clean because where you spend eternity depends on it -- and if you lead ONE little one astray, better for you to be thrown into the sea w/a millstone about your neck. Same goes for Pope Francis
In all fairness to "Papa Alex", since I've banned his presence from these com-boxes, I ask that you direct no remarks to him as he has no forum to reply.
ReplyDelete